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Who was the most important founding father?
Roger Williams and Legacy! We are all Pilgrims in an unholy land.
The name of my blog probably seems self important, but I hope thats not the case. Surfing the blogs one day, I felt like Indiana Jone's dad when he said, "we are pilgrims in an unholy land my boy". So I wanted to make a blog where I could post things that I thought were interesting or edifying. "We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous. . . If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things." - Joseph Smith
Roger Williams Legacy Alive and Well!
My girl, Cadence Diana is his 12th Great Grand Daugher and as such, she will surely be a very tolerant, loving and gospel seeking individual!
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- A Few Good Men In German!
- Another Example of the Intolerant Tolerant!
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- Great Story. Rudy! Rudy! Rudy!
- Pay Attention To Your Kids!! Please.
- In Loving Memory of Mark Dean Nielsen
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Jesus
Said "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits." Which my Intolerant-Tolerant articles are based on.
Paul Told the Thessalonians This Regarding the Second Coming.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.
The apostacy! An event that was prophesied in Amos of the Old Testament.
That Scripture says " they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it", which was literally fulfilled in Roger Williams and others like him!
The apostacy! An event that was prophesied in Amos of the Old Testament.
That Scripture says " they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it", which was literally fulfilled in Roger Williams and others like him!
Roger Williams
"In the poor small span of my life, I desired to have been a diligent and constant observer. . . and yet cannot in the holy presence of God bring in the result of a satisfying discovery, that either the begetting ministry of the apostles or messengers to the nations, or the feeding and nourishing ministry of pastors and teachers, according to the first institution of the Lord Jesus, are yet restored and extant", he said. In the 1600s he founded Rhode Island and a group called the Seekers, who would await the day when Christ saw fit to restore His Church. For having such "strange" beliefs he was banished and driven out of Mass., being persecuted for the gospel's sake 200 years before its restoration, demonstrating an historically reoccuring pattern. Nevertheless, he waited and watched!
The First Vision
"I was an obscure boy, only between fourteen and fifteen years of age. . . a boy of no consequence in the world, yet men of high standing would take notice suffucient to excite the public mind against me. . .though I was hated and persecuted for saying that I had seen avision, yet it was true. . . who am I that I can withstand God, or why does the world think to make me deny what I have actually seen?"- Joseph Smith
Roger Williams and the Gospel.
Roger Williams founded the first state with a "hedge" as he liked to call it, separating the state from religion. He did this, because he wanted to find truth and this could only happen when religion was free of government corruption. If there was still a pure religion, it had to be unspotted by government corruption.
In Rhode Island, there was no state sponsored religion, no taxes to support a state run religion, but that never meant a public figure couldn't speak about God, that certainly never meant that they shouldn't pray and ask for guidance in their personal life. Roger Williams was perhaps the brightest, most liberal (when liberalism was about considering all religious ideas, not considering nothing) . He was a man that most Christians as well Jews would hold in the highest esteem. It was because of His leadership, that the first Jewish community was founded in North America and he was co-founder of the first Baptist church in North America. How did he come to conclusions about true religion and priesthood authority, which are totally consistent with 'Mormonism'? I would submit that it was from a lifetime of Bible study and understanding its precepts. If you study Williams life, you will appreciate how much he loved the Bible and tried to live it, how much he desired to interpret it and live it correctly. He is a man who loved native Americans, who gave them free goods, who unlike the puritans, obtained their land legally, who did work for widows when he had nothing to do but wait for an audience with the King of England. He is universally loved by historians. He was a man so loved by the Narragansett Indians that their sachem asked to be buried in Williams clothing. Here are some excerpts from Timothy L. Halls, "Separation of Church and State", University of Illinois Press, 1998. These are from pages 25-27. These quotes clearly show that the LDS idea of a need for apostolic succession and a line of authority aren't 19th century invention, but through careful study of the Bible, one can and should draw the conclusion that there was an apostasy in Christ's Church and that authority was lost and there was a need for a restitution."when [Roger Williams] arrived in Massachusetts he still believed that a pure church might be found if only he were to search for it diligently enough. In later years, though, Williams abandoned the search altogether. He became convinced that churches could not be established willy-nilly just because a band of individuals decided to form one. To found a church one needed a properly ordained minister, and - here was the rub - so far as Williams could tell, no such ministers existed any longer. To be ordained, one had to receive ordination from someone properly ordained by a minister of a true church. Now this chain of ordination had proceeded in an orderly fashion during the early years of the church. Christ had ordained apostles; they, in turn, had ordained church ministers; the ministers had ordained their successors; and so on. But, eventually, Williams thought, the chain had been disrupted. The line of apostolic succession had been severed by Constantine's nationalization of Christianity in the fourth century. At that point, Williams believed, the true church had died, and with it the chain of ordinations that kept the ministry alive." Roger Williams liked to speak of a hedge separating church and state and how when you removed the hedge, state corrupted religion. He was more concerned about the state's ill effect on religion than true religions ill effects on state when there existed no hedge or wall separating the two. Isiah 5:4 'What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes? 5:5 And now go to; I will tell you what I will do to my vineyard: I will take away the hedge thereof, and it shall be eaten up; and break down the wall thereof, and it shall be trodden down' (my interjection not Hall) "Thereafter, the world was ruled by the anti-Christian Roman Catholic Church and had become a wilderness in which true believers roamed as pilgrims, without benefit of ministry or sacrament." (Hall)Amos 8:12 "And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it."If anyone is fulfillment of this prophecy, it is Roger Williams. He searched all over England and then to New England. He founded a group called the seekers and encouraged all religions to come to Rhode Island, because he wanted to find the truth if it existed in its fullness. (my interjection not Hall) John Cotton wrote this about how Williams began to cut himself off from the New England churches because he didn't believe they possessed the authority to perform ordinances."And then [he] fell off from his ministry, and then from all church-fellowship, and then from his baptism and then from the Lord's Supper, and from all ordinances of Christ dispensed in any church-way, till God shall stir up himself, or some other new apostles to recover, and restore all the ordinances, and churches of Christ out of the ruins of Anti christian apostasy."". . . . Williams eventually abandoned any hope of finding a pure church. He associated for a few months with an infant congregation of Baptists but ultimately separated from them because even they could not claim to have preserved the legacy of the apostolic church. How could they baptize anyone without a properly ordained minister to perform the baptism, and where could they find such a minister? In forming the Baptist church, one of the founding members had baptized Williams, who had baptized the remaining members. But now, Williams saw, he was not a true minister and could not conduct the ordinance of baptism. He saw no alternative but to withdraw from his so recently acquired Baptist brethren. They were trying to create a garden out of a barren wilderness of the world and had set upon an illusive quest for a church that had died and would remain dead until God resurrected it in the last days."Jesus said this: Acts 20:29 "For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock"Roger Williams talks about barren wilderness and lack of the beautiful garden, which is the church. It is described in like terms by Amos, 8:11 "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD"But Roger Williams also foresaw a day when God would resurrect the church in the last days which is also consistent with the Bible Isiah 2:2,3 "And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD’s house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us ago up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem." This next passage is one of my favorite Roger Williams quotes, because it shows how diligently he searched for Christ's Church, but was unable to be satisfied that it was on the earth in the 1600s and how he knew as a biblical scholar, that there was a need for a restoration of authority to perform ordinances like baptism and there were no missionaries or "messengers to the nations" possessing an authentic message (mine not Hall):"In the poor small span of my life, I desired to have been a diligent and constant observer, and have been my self many ways engaged in city, in country, in court, in schools, in universities, in churches, in old and New England, and yet cannot in the holy presence of God bring in the result of a satisfying discovery, that either the begetting ministry of the apostles or messengers to the nations, or the feeding and nourishing ministry of pastors and teachers, according to the first institution of the Lord Jesus, are yet restored and extant.""Williams saw no alternative but to wait patiently until God at length sent apostles who had the power to start new churches. Until that time, there was no one available either to start a church or to sustain it."
In Rhode Island, there was no state sponsored religion, no taxes to support a state run religion, but that never meant a public figure couldn't speak about God, that certainly never meant that they shouldn't pray and ask for guidance in their personal life. Roger Williams was perhaps the brightest, most liberal (when liberalism was about considering all religious ideas, not considering nothing) . He was a man that most Christians as well Jews would hold in the highest esteem. It was because of His leadership, that the first Jewish community was founded in North America and he was co-founder of the first Baptist church in North America. How did he come to conclusions about true religion and priesthood authority, which are totally consistent with 'Mormonism'? I would submit that it was from a lifetime of Bible study and understanding its precepts. If you study Williams life, you will appreciate how much he loved the Bible and tried to live it, how much he desired to interpret it and live it correctly. He is a man who loved native Americans, who gave them free goods, who unlike the puritans, obtained their land legally, who did work for widows when he had nothing to do but wait for an audience with the King of England. He is universally loved by historians. He was a man so loved by the Narragansett Indians that their sachem asked to be buried in Williams clothing. Here are some excerpts from Timothy L. Halls, "Separation of Church and State", University of Illinois Press, 1998. These are from pages 25-27. These quotes clearly show that the LDS idea of a need for apostolic succession and a line of authority aren't 19th century invention, but through careful study of the Bible, one can and should draw the conclusion that there was an apostasy in Christ's Church and that authority was lost and there was a need for a restitution."when [Roger Williams] arrived in Massachusetts he still believed that a pure church might be found if only he were to search for it diligently enough. In later years, though, Williams abandoned the search altogether. He became convinced that churches could not be established willy-nilly just because a band of individuals decided to form one. To found a church one needed a properly ordained minister, and - here was the rub - so far as Williams could tell, no such ministers existed any longer. To be ordained, one had to receive ordination from someone properly ordained by a minister of a true church. Now this chain of ordination had proceeded in an orderly fashion during the early years of the church. Christ had ordained apostles; they, in turn, had ordained church ministers; the ministers had ordained their successors; and so on. But, eventually, Williams thought, the chain had been disrupted. The line of apostolic succession had been severed by Constantine's nationalization of Christianity in the fourth century. At that point, Williams believed, the true church had died, and with it the chain of ordinations that kept the ministry alive." Roger Williams liked to speak of a hedge separating church and state and how when you removed the hedge, state corrupted religion. He was more concerned about the state's ill effect on religion than true religions ill effects on state when there existed no hedge or wall separating the two. Isiah 5:4 'What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes? 5:5 And now go to; I will tell you what I will do to my vineyard: I will take away the hedge thereof, and it shall be eaten up; and break down the wall thereof, and it shall be trodden down' (my interjection not Hall) "Thereafter, the world was ruled by the anti-Christian Roman Catholic Church and had become a wilderness in which true believers roamed as pilgrims, without benefit of ministry or sacrament." (Hall)Amos 8:12 "And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it."If anyone is fulfillment of this prophecy, it is Roger Williams. He searched all over England and then to New England. He founded a group called the seekers and encouraged all religions to come to Rhode Island, because he wanted to find the truth if it existed in its fullness. (my interjection not Hall) John Cotton wrote this about how Williams began to cut himself off from the New England churches because he didn't believe they possessed the authority to perform ordinances."And then [he] fell off from his ministry, and then from all church-fellowship, and then from his baptism and then from the Lord's Supper, and from all ordinances of Christ dispensed in any church-way, till God shall stir up himself, or some other new apostles to recover, and restore all the ordinances, and churches of Christ out of the ruins of Anti christian apostasy."". . . . Williams eventually abandoned any hope of finding a pure church. He associated for a few months with an infant congregation of Baptists but ultimately separated from them because even they could not claim to have preserved the legacy of the apostolic church. How could they baptize anyone without a properly ordained minister to perform the baptism, and where could they find such a minister? In forming the Baptist church, one of the founding members had baptized Williams, who had baptized the remaining members. But now, Williams saw, he was not a true minister and could not conduct the ordinance of baptism. He saw no alternative but to withdraw from his so recently acquired Baptist brethren. They were trying to create a garden out of a barren wilderness of the world and had set upon an illusive quest for a church that had died and would remain dead until God resurrected it in the last days."Jesus said this: Acts 20:29 "For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock"Roger Williams talks about barren wilderness and lack of the beautiful garden, which is the church. It is described in like terms by Amos, 8:11 "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD"But Roger Williams also foresaw a day when God would resurrect the church in the last days which is also consistent with the Bible Isiah 2:2,3 "And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD’s house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us ago up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem." This next passage is one of my favorite Roger Williams quotes, because it shows how diligently he searched for Christ's Church, but was unable to be satisfied that it was on the earth in the 1600s and how he knew as a biblical scholar, that there was a need for a restoration of authority to perform ordinances like baptism and there were no missionaries or "messengers to the nations" possessing an authentic message (mine not Hall):"In the poor small span of my life, I desired to have been a diligent and constant observer, and have been my self many ways engaged in city, in country, in court, in schools, in universities, in churches, in old and New England, and yet cannot in the holy presence of God bring in the result of a satisfying discovery, that either the begetting ministry of the apostles or messengers to the nations, or the feeding and nourishing ministry of pastors and teachers, according to the first institution of the Lord Jesus, are yet restored and extant.""Williams saw no alternative but to wait patiently until God at length sent apostles who had the power to start new churches. Until that time, there was no one available either to start a church or to sustain it."
Great History Books - Must Reads!
- The Book of Mormon and Bible by God and His Prophets
- The Death of Right and Wrong by Tammy Bruce
- Lincoln by David Herbert Donald
- John Adams by McCullough
- Ordinary Men by Christopher Browning
- Flyboys by James Bradley
- Day Lincoln Was Shot Jim Bishop
- Undaunted Courage by Stephen Ambrose
- Liberty of Conscience by Edwin S. Gaustad
- Working Class War by Christian Appy
- Vindicating the Founders by Thomas G. West
Favorite Scriptures
- 2 Tim. 3:1-7
- Isiah 1:18
- 2 Tim. 3: 12
- Mosiah 27:29
- 2 Nephi 4
- Mosiah 26:30
- 2 Nephi 9:28
- Alma 5:19
- Luke 18:16
- Helaman 14:30
- Alma 32:27
- James 1:5
- Hebrews 12:5
- Matthew 5:10-11
- John 3:16
C.Darro's Favorite Sites!
Feast on the Words of Christ!
Quote of the Day
Jesus loves me - this I know. For the Bible tells me so.
-Anna Bartlett Warner
Boston Temple
1 comment:
The great thing about "Office Space" is that it reminds everyone of a place they've worked or the place they currently work. The TPS reports remind me of a time I turned in a request for vacation time using the old form and got chewed out for it. I replied to the HR person by saying, "It was a mistake. I forgot about the new form, it wont happen again, and I will also remember to put cover sheets on my TPS reports." I don't think she caught the reference to "Office Space" so it wasn't funny. DANG IT! I ALWAYS SCREW UP MY JOKES! DANG IT! I'M SUCH AN IDIOT!
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